“What we have here is a failure to communicate.” I experienced utter frustration attempting to negotiate a business deal with Chinese businessmen. I was vainly attempting to establish a basis of trust so we could have a foundation of cooperation, but they placed no value on trust and continued to haggle about transactional details and were shocked and insulted when I abruptly ended the negotiations.
Trust is an essential bedrock of Western economics and diplomacy. “My word is my bond” is critical in the West, but likely considered naive in more pragmatic China. Yes, the discussion of “low trust” is a major disconnect in our mutual understanding.
Yeah, this sounds like a typical encounter. It's not that they don't value "trust," though. It's a different way of operating. I will fully explain it in this series!
"Trust is an essential bedrock of Western economics and diplomacy. " but not if you're the USA ruling class, then it's been transactional application of force for at least the last 30 years, for both diplomacy and economics.
Many Chinese businessmen/people themselves experience the same frustration as you do. 2 observations to share:
1. Younger generations of Chinese people are more trustworthy as they put more value on trust than older generations. They themselves hate the way that older generations conduct business like you do.
2. Southern region of China like Shanghai, Zhejiang, Fujian, Guangdong, etc is more "commercial rule - oriented" and business is conducted based on trust, contracts and exchange principles.
Even if you don’t get to Taiwan this go around. As an American with Taiwanese wife, I would be fascinated by you writing a series. Especially diving into the why and how.
The "low trust" idea is unique and not something I've read on Substack before. I think the Taiwan angle is difficult, as it's nearly impossible to find something novel for people who pay attention to China.
I wonder whether the concept of “low trust” that you have in mind is the same as the Singaporean-Malaysian concept “kiasu” or “afraid to lose” or (I think) 怕失败”.
The Western view of Taiwan is contradictory as far as I can tell: you cannot sign up to the "One China Policy" and then treat it as an independent state.
The same actually seems to apply to the "high trust" that is seen as requirement for doing business:
look at Trump claiming to be a business man and destroying trust in all directions. So we talk the Talk in the West but do we walk the Walk?
When doing business in Japan e.g. I had to learn to interpret the different signals that were usually missed by my compatriots .
I feel like I already have a decent enough grip on your TW take that I'd like to hear about the low trust... seems more esoteric-but-potentially-highly-enlightening.
Have only been to China once, but I was shocked at attempts to buy me expensive gifts and how prevalent fraud was. As I said, my experience was limited, but I did seem to encounter the indications that a low-trust society exists.
I am sorry for your experience! But that sounds more like pure scamming on unwitting foreigners, more than the “low trust” nature I am referring to. In any case, this does seem like the topic I will write about first.
It was an inexperienced young man who was scared or terribly misguided. The BOD was more interesting; they paid attention to things that an American would have considered unimportant. I liked the BOD a lot; I felt bad for the young man who did not know taking such gifts is completely beyond the pale.
Fraud is a high trust activity, it depends on adherence to unwritten contracts or the practice becomes unpopular. It's victims on the other hand often already had low trust, but are not able to deploy power to stop the fraud from occurring. The dynamics of fraud can say a lot about power relationships, just look at the recent digital coin business between Trump regime and the digital currency barons.
Low trust would be very interesting article, for example at least when I was in China every state organization I consulted with used Microsoft OS, server platforms, and Office Suites, which one would think is a huge issue/risk, but at the same time they had very strict protocol on staff movement/passport access. Similarly, Apple OS and Google Android seemed to have a lock on newer internet of things environment, which again is a huge trust issue. It seems as if they don't trust people, but trust things and intangibles like software too much.
“What we have here is a failure to communicate.” I experienced utter frustration attempting to negotiate a business deal with Chinese businessmen. I was vainly attempting to establish a basis of trust so we could have a foundation of cooperation, but they placed no value on trust and continued to haggle about transactional details and were shocked and insulted when I abruptly ended the negotiations.
Trust is an essential bedrock of Western economics and diplomacy. “My word is my bond” is critical in the West, but likely considered naive in more pragmatic China. Yes, the discussion of “low trust” is a major disconnect in our mutual understanding.
Yeah, this sounds like a typical encounter. It's not that they don't value "trust," though. It's a different way of operating. I will fully explain it in this series!
"Trust is an essential bedrock of Western economics and diplomacy. " but not if you're the USA ruling class, then it's been transactional application of force for at least the last 30 years, for both diplomacy and economics.
Many Chinese businessmen/people themselves experience the same frustration as you do. 2 observations to share:
1. Younger generations of Chinese people are more trustworthy as they put more value on trust than older generations. They themselves hate the way that older generations conduct business like you do.
2. Southern region of China like Shanghai, Zhejiang, Fujian, Guangdong, etc is more "commercial rule - oriented" and business is conducted based on trust, contracts and exchange principles.
Both plz
Even if you don’t get to Taiwan this go around. As an American with Taiwanese wife, I would be fascinated by you writing a series. Especially diving into the why and how.
The "low trust" idea is unique and not something I've read on Substack before. I think the Taiwan angle is difficult, as it's nearly impossible to find something novel for people who pay attention to China.
I wonder whether the concept of “low trust” that you have in mind is the same as the Singaporean-Malaysian concept “kiasu” or “afraid to lose” or (I think) 怕失败”.
The Western view of Taiwan is contradictory as far as I can tell: you cannot sign up to the "One China Policy" and then treat it as an independent state.
The same actually seems to apply to the "high trust" that is seen as requirement for doing business:
look at Trump claiming to be a business man and destroying trust in all directions. So we talk the Talk in the West but do we walk the Walk?
When doing business in Japan e.g. I had to learn to interpret the different signals that were usually missed by my compatriots .
I feel like I already have a decent enough grip on your TW take that I'd like to hear about the low trust... seems more esoteric-but-potentially-highly-enlightening.
Have only been to China once, but I was shocked at attempts to buy me expensive gifts and how prevalent fraud was. As I said, my experience was limited, but I did seem to encounter the indications that a low-trust society exists.
I am sorry for your experience! But that sounds more like pure scamming on unwitting foreigners, more than the “low trust” nature I am referring to. In any case, this does seem like the topic I will write about first.
It was an inexperienced young man who was scared or terribly misguided. The BOD was more interesting; they paid attention to things that an American would have considered unimportant. I liked the BOD a lot; I felt bad for the young man who did not know taking such gifts is completely beyond the pale.
Fraud is a high trust activity, it depends on adherence to unwritten contracts or the practice becomes unpopular. It's victims on the other hand often already had low trust, but are not able to deploy power to stop the fraud from occurring. The dynamics of fraud can say a lot about power relationships, just look at the recent digital coin business between Trump regime and the digital currency barons.
Low trust would be very interesting article, for example at least when I was in China every state organization I consulted with used Microsoft OS, server platforms, and Office Suites, which one would think is a huge issue/risk, but at the same time they had very strict protocol on staff movement/passport access. Similarly, Apple OS and Google Android seemed to have a lock on newer internet of things environment, which again is a huge trust issue. It seems as if they don't trust people, but trust things and intangibles like software too much.